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	<title>Comments on: Worship Mythbusters: Ten things that damage a worship ministry and hamper worship in a church</title>
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	<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html</link>
	<description>A conversation on faith &#38; culture for creatives, leaders &#38; influencers</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Verkade</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4909</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Verkade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4909</guid>
		<description>Rich, I gather you are talking about more than just music selection, so what am I missing? Our community Christian music station:
A. Plays a larger cross-section of musical (and cultural) genres than does our church
B. Is available 24 hours a day -- our church is available for 3 hours on Sunday with 50 minutes of music
C. You can stumble onto the radio station -- in our community no-one stumbles into our church
D. Gives a message of peace, hope, and salvation
E. People have been saved by listening to this station
Why wouldn&#039;t I want to sound like this?

Isn&#039;t 95% of church politics simply a matter of a difference of opinion? In matters of the words of Jesus, stand firm like a rock. In matters of opinion, bend like a willow.

This is your blog, Rich, I won&#039;t be offended if you need to cut this off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, I gather you are talking about more than just music selection, so what am I missing? Our community Christian music station:<br />
A. Plays a larger cross-section of musical (and cultural) genres than does our church<br />
B. Is available 24 hours a day &#8212; our church is available for 3 hours on Sunday with 50 minutes of music<br />
C. You can stumble onto the radio station &#8212; in our community no-one stumbles into our church<br />
D. Gives a message of peace, hope, and salvation<br />
E. People have been saved by listening to this station<br />
Why wouldn&#8217;t I want to sound like this?</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t 95% of church politics simply a matter of a difference of opinion? In matters of the words of Jesus, stand firm like a rock. In matters of opinion, bend like a willow.</p>
<p>This is your blog, Rich, I won&#8217;t be offended if you need to cut this off.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4899</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4899</guid>
		<description>The less we sound like Christian radio, the more indigenous we are! Those of us who live in the Christian bubble need to be careful to compare ourselves to ourselves. Len Sweet says &quot;in tune with Jesus, in touch with the world.&quot; That is the balance.

And, about the politics. Church politics damages things, Dan. Its like telling a sprinter that having one leg is fine and that constraint still allows him to run. We need not cut off legs. Church politics (as described above) hurt, not just are a challenge. Its like breaking a glass. Its a challenge to pick up pieces of glass but you cannot ever again drink from those pieces. This why the scripture tells us to get right with our brother before coming to worship. So, it is a deeper issue than just having constraints. Its being sure we are in unity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The less we sound like Christian radio, the more indigenous we are! Those of us who live in the Christian bubble need to be careful to compare ourselves to ourselves. Len Sweet says &#8220;in tune with Jesus, in touch with the world.&#8221; That is the balance.</p>
<p>And, about the politics. Church politics damages things, Dan. Its like telling a sprinter that having one leg is fine and that constraint still allows him to run. We need not cut off legs. Church politics (as described above) hurt, not just are a challenge. Its like breaking a glass. Its a challenge to pick up pieces of glass but you cannot ever again drink from those pieces. This why the scripture tells us to get right with our brother before coming to worship. So, it is a deeper issue than just having constraints. Its being sure we are in unity.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Verkade</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4894</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Verkade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4894</guid>
		<description>Rich, I think we&#039;re on the same page here save that I submit it *is* about doing it right within the sub-communities in which we have influence. There are some doors open to our younger generation that are not open to us, and yes, we need to teach them how to adapt and choose the right wrench for the job. Our tendency is to tell them the wrench we invented will always work. Also, just as they (younger people) are not the church of the future: they are the church, we (insert your generation here) are not the church of the past: we are the church.

In your original post you said: &quot;Make worship style indigenous to reach and reflect your community&quot;. Irrespective of medium or context, Christian radio, at least in our community, may be the more indigenous.

I agree, let&#039;s not lose our zeal to reduce damaging, meaningless politics. But, where the rubber meets the road is, given the constaints that you know will be in place when you walk into your church venue next Sunday -- constraints that you have not been able to mitigate over the last week, or month, or year, even though you tried -- how are you going to rise above them, and possibly because of them, orchestrate an awesome time of worship? If your church committee or lead pastor gives you a constraint of a 95 Db maximum, how are you going to make music so good that it would be ruined at 100 Db? When God constrains the beauty of the blue sky on a rainy day we get a rainbow. Right?

Keep up the good work, Bro!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, I think we&#8217;re on the same page here save that I submit it *is* about doing it right within the sub-communities in which we have influence. There are some doors open to our younger generation that are not open to us, and yes, we need to teach them how to adapt and choose the right wrench for the job. Our tendency is to tell them the wrench we invented will always work. Also, just as they (younger people) are not the church of the future: they are the church, we (insert your generation here) are not the church of the past: we are the church.</p>
<p>In your original post you said: &#8220;Make worship style indigenous to reach and reflect your community&#8221;. Irrespective of medium or context, Christian radio, at least in our community, may be the more indigenous.</p>
<p>I agree, let&#8217;s not lose our zeal to reduce damaging, meaningless politics. But, where the rubber meets the road is, given the constaints that you know will be in place when you walk into your church venue next Sunday &#8212; constraints that you have not been able to mitigate over the last week, or month, or year, even though you tried &#8212; how are you going to rise above them, and possibly because of them, orchestrate an awesome time of worship? If your church committee or lead pastor gives you a constraint of a 95 Db maximum, how are you going to make music so good that it would be ruined at 100 Db? When God constrains the beauty of the blue sky on a rainy day we get a rainbow. Right?</p>
<p>Keep up the good work, Bro!</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4884</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4884</guid>
		<description>Dan... The key is to reject &quot;us and them&quot; and to see our younger people as part of the same community. It&#039;s not about who is doing it right, it&#039;s about mentoring and passing on our faith--a reproducing faith. Those who are younger have a different bent and way of doing things but it is us who are older who need to change. They are not the church of the future they are the church. Let&#039;s not minimize mentoring and passing on transferable reproducible things God gives us.  

Not sure Christian radio is really much help Dan. The issue is iPod verses broadcasting. Our little worship sets mean more because of the context. Liturgy verses a soundtrack. 

Politics is more than a challenge, it&#039;s a wet blanket to Gods gifting being used. It is damaging. The idea is to lift lids rather than settle for less. Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan&#8230; The key is to reject &#8220;us and them&#8221; and to see our younger people as part of the same community. It&#8217;s not about who is doing it right, it&#8217;s about mentoring and passing on our faith&#8211;a reproducing faith. Those who are younger have a different bent and way of doing things but it is us who are older who need to change. They are not the church of the future they are the church. Let&#8217;s not minimize mentoring and passing on transferable reproducible things God gives us.  </p>
<p>Not sure Christian radio is really much help Dan. The issue is iPod verses broadcasting. Our little worship sets mean more because of the context. Liturgy verses a soundtrack. </p>
<p>Politics is more than a challenge, it&#8217;s a wet blanket to Gods gifting being used. It is damaging. The idea is to lift lids rather than settle for less. Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Verkade</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4882</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Verkade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4882</guid>
		<description>Not Letting the Kids Take Over
Yes, we need to empower them to become leaders in *their* community, which is not necessarily *our* community. We do not want to teach our youth music teams to be clones of our music teams. We need to let them lead in their own way with their own songs and with their own style. One of the biggest mistakes we make is to think that we are doing everything right and our youth teams absolutely must do it like we do. Go through your teenager&#039;s iPod and see how much of it, if any of it, sounds like what you&#039;re currently doing in your church.

Christian Subculture
Sometimes I think it&#039;s the other way around: the Christian music radio station in our community is cutting through a much larger cultural/musical swath than is our church, and, our church is the one who&#039;s drawing from the same small list (Brewster, Tomlin, Hughes, Redman, Hillsong, Crowder...) of songs and writers. I&#039;m going to go out on a limb and guess that more people have found Christ by listening to our community&#039;s Christian radio station than have found Him during our church&#039;s music sets.

Church Politics
Church constaints present us with a challenge: within these constraints, how do we still provide excellent and heart-and-mind-moving worship? If J. S. Bach (or John Williams, or Yanni, or Billy Joe Armstrong) had to work within these constraints what great stuff would they put together? If we could give Michaelangelo only three colors of chalk, what great piece of visual art would he come up with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not Letting the Kids Take Over<br />
Yes, we need to empower them to become leaders in *their* community, which is not necessarily *our* community. We do not want to teach our youth music teams to be clones of our music teams. We need to let them lead in their own way with their own songs and with their own style. One of the biggest mistakes we make is to think that we are doing everything right and our youth teams absolutely must do it like we do. Go through your teenager&#8217;s iPod and see how much of it, if any of it, sounds like what you&#8217;re currently doing in your church.</p>
<p>Christian Subculture<br />
Sometimes I think it&#8217;s the other way around: the Christian music radio station in our community is cutting through a much larger cultural/musical swath than is our church, and, our church is the one who&#8217;s drawing from the same small list (Brewster, Tomlin, Hughes, Redman, Hillsong, Crowder&#8230;) of songs and writers. I&#8217;m going to go out on a limb and guess that more people have found Christ by listening to our community&#8217;s Christian radio station than have found Him during our church&#8217;s music sets.</p>
<p>Church Politics<br />
Church constaints present us with a challenge: within these constraints, how do we still provide excellent and heart-and-mind-moving worship? If J. S. Bach (or John Williams, or Yanni, or Billy Joe Armstrong) had to work within these constraints what great stuff would they put together? If we could give Michaelangelo only three colors of chalk, what great piece of visual art would he come up with?</p>
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		<title>By: &#8211;Links of the Week&#8211; &#171; Straight Up</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4846</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8211;Links of the Week&#8211; &#171; Straight Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4846</guid>
		<description>[...] Ten Things not-to-do in a worship ministry. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ten Things not-to-do in a worship ministry. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4842</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4842</guid>
		<description>Rick--That &quot;Christian subculture&quot; is a damaging thing if we are not careful to much we do in ministry, not just worship ministry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick&#8211;That &#8220;Christian subculture&#8221; is a damaging thing if we are not careful to much we do in ministry, not just worship ministry!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4841</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4841</guid>
		<description>Well written, Rich. Interesting that you put the concept of the Christian subculture on this list. Hadn&#039;t thought about that one before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written, Rich. Interesting that you put the concept of the Christian subculture on this list. Hadn&#8217;t thought about that one before.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Durbin</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4840</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Durbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4840</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, Rich...I love the acknowledgment of balance in excellence. Great thoughts. Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, Rich&#8230;I love the acknowledgment of balance in excellence. Great thoughts. Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/07/worship-mythbusters-ten-things-that-damage-a-worship-ministry-and-hamper-worship-in-a-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4833</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=2011#comment-4833</guid>
		<description>Its tough to keep excellence in a church setting. While it is important to not become a clique, it is also important to recognize that certain people have higher levels of gifting and perhaps even time to make commitment to a ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its tough to keep excellence in a church setting. While it is important to not become a clique, it is also important to recognize that certain people have higher levels of gifting and perhaps even time to make commitment to a ministry.</p>
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