Comments on: Worship Mythbusters: Artists are not true leaders in the church http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html A conversation on faith & culture for creatives, leaders & influencers Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:18:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4940 Rich Kirkpatrick Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:37:52 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4940 Would love to John. Thanks for your encouragement. I am simply trying to break the box we put on leadership and creatives. Would love to John.

Thanks for your encouragement. I am simply trying to break the box we put on leadership and creatives.

]]> By: John Woolard http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4935 John Woolard Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:00:07 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4935 Rich, Wonderful article. I am a person who is BOTH analytical and artistic....I am a manager and a leader. I do not know how it works, save for God in it, but that is what it is. I liked it when you said we end up leading and not even knowing it - it has been my experience that we tend to turn around and see that there are people following. It is truly an awesome responsibility. Praise God for you and your ministry, and I hope you are near Holland MI soon. I would love to come and worship Him with you! John FOCUS Worship Ministries Holland, MI www.focuspraise.com Rich,

Wonderful article. I am a person who is BOTH analytical and artistic….I am a manager and a leader. I do not know how it works, save for God in it, but that is what it is.

I liked it when you said we end up leading and not even knowing it – it has been my experience that we tend to turn around and see that there are people following. It is truly an awesome responsibility.

Praise God for you and your ministry, and I hope you are near Holland MI soon. I would love to come and worship Him with you!

John
FOCUS Worship Ministries
Holland, MI
http://www.focuspraise.com

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4775 Rich Kirkpatrick Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:15:53 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4775 You can be an artist and lead, rather than thinking the two are mutually exclusive. So, Matt, be creative and also lead from who you are. Not easy, but you can learn to do it just like you can learn a new song. You can be an artist and lead, rather than thinking the two are mutually exclusive. So, Matt, be creative and also lead from who you are. Not easy, but you can learn to do it just like you can learn a new song.

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4774 Rich Kirkpatrick Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:13:38 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4774 You define Winger as art who created real art? Not sure I would agree, there, based on the light you shed of Winger. Creating culture is one of the thing art does. It lays the foundation for how we express and foreshadows where we are heading. It critiques the powers to be. Why I think it is a myth that artists are not leaders in the church or should not be is that in the church culture we misunderstanding art and artists. Leadership involves not necessarily management. It involves moving the hearts and minds of people. You define Winger as art who created real art? Not sure I would agree, there, based on the light you shed of Winger. Creating culture is one of the thing art does. It lays the foundation for how we express and foreshadows where we are heading. It critiques the powers to be.

Why I think it is a myth that artists are not leaders in the church or should not be is that in the church culture we misunderstanding art and artists. Leadership involves not necessarily management. It involves moving the hearts and minds of people.

]]> By: Greg Jones http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4768 Greg Jones Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:16:07 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4768 You said that artists create culture. I think art CAN create culture, but this is not an inherent quality for artists. There are plenty of artists making great art that may not even see the light of day to the public. Most artists probably reflect culture more than they reflect it. I'm thinking of the 80's rock band Winger. They didn't really create a culture (outside of a fanbase). They more or less reflected the existing 80's hair-band culture, which was admittedly created by other artists before them. But with all this said, I DO believe that art is extremely powerful. I think it was Andrew Schlesinger who said, "Let me write the songs of a nation, I don't care who writes its laws." Jesus communicated in parables, and the Bible is dominated by narrative because stories are an art that reach everyone no matter where they are coming from, and they reach both the heart and the mind. If the Bible were written like a doctrinal thesis instead, it would only reach analytical types and people who are more intellectual. Art transcends barriers. That is why it is powerful. You said that artists create culture. I think art CAN create culture, but this is not an inherent quality for artists. There are plenty of artists making great art that may not even see the light of day to the public.

Most artists probably reflect culture more than they reflect it. I’m thinking of the 80’s rock band Winger. They didn’t really create a culture (outside of a fanbase). They more or less reflected the existing 80’s hair-band culture, which was admittedly created by other artists before them.

But with all this said, I DO believe that art is extremely powerful. I think it was Andrew Schlesinger who said, “Let me write the songs of a nation, I don’t care who writes its laws.”

Jesus communicated in parables, and the Bible is dominated by narrative because stories are an art that reach everyone no matter where they are coming from, and they reach both the heart and the mind.

If the Bible were written like a doctrinal thesis instead, it would only reach analytical types and people who are more intellectual.

Art transcends barriers. That is why it is powerful.

]]> By: Matt http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4763 Matt Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:59:58 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4763 This is something that I've wrestled with: The idea of 'trying' to be a leader, versus being myself...an artist. I’ve struggled with thinking that being an artist isn't enough...and that I need to 'try and lead' in addition to being an artist. Leading would be an outflow of being creative & artistic…but would be, and is, misunderstood by people who think in straighter lines. I understand that there is a task to be done…but I rarely approach that task the same way as the next guy would…and this certainly does not make it wrong or bad leadership. Sometimes ‘leadership’ is so compartmentalized by people who are quick to say what it is…and certainly what it isn’t. And of course…many artists are hurt in one way or another by this. It kills creativity…and if you’re not being creative, you’re not being artistic…and then you’ve got a predicament on your hands…hmmm… This is something that I’ve wrestled with: The idea of ‘trying’ to be a leader, versus being myself…an artist. I’ve struggled with thinking that being an artist isn’t enough…and that I need to ‘try and lead’ in addition to being an artist.

Leading would be an outflow of being creative & artistic…but would be, and is, misunderstood by people who think in straighter lines. I understand that there is a task to be done…but I rarely approach that task the same way as the next guy would…and this certainly does not make it wrong or bad leadership.

Sometimes ‘leadership’ is so compartmentalized by people who are quick to say what it is…and certainly what it isn’t. And of course…many artists are hurt in one way or another by this. It kills creativity…and if you’re not being creative, you’re not being artistic…and then you’ve got a predicament on your hands…hmmm…

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4754 Rich Kirkpatrick Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:27:42 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4754 and thank you for conversing with us about it and thank you for conversing with us about it

]]> By: dustin http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4753 dustin Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:52:07 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4753 I really like the idea for this series. There are a ton of myths about worship and worship leading. Great job in taking initiative and tackling these. I really like the idea for this series. There are a ton of myths about worship and worship leading. Great job in taking initiative and tackling these.

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4748 Rich Kirkpatrick Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:18:22 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4748 Zac... take note of the difference between management and leadership that I mention in the post. I believe that is one of the ways the church misreads what leadership is in the first place. Administrators are not necessarily leaders while leaders can lead without being good administrators (management). The details of running process is one thing. The vision of inspiring and moving people in a direction is another. Zac… take note of the difference between management and leadership that I mention in the post. I believe that is one of the ways the church misreads what leadership is in the first place. Administrators are not necessarily leaders while leaders can lead without being good administrators (management). The details of running process is one thing. The vision of inspiring and moving people in a direction is another.

]]> By: Zac Hicks http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/06/worship-mythbusters-artists-are-not-true-leaders-in-the-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4745 Zac Hicks Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:46:02 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1970#comment-4745 Great post. I appreciate you bringing this up! I'm with you on this, as I think too often artist-types get pegged as unable to function well as a leader. I have to say that, from experience, this is sometimes true. Churches who are interested in artist-leaders need to look at not only their artistic skill but their leadership abilities and administrative prowess. If they don't have those latter traits, churches need to be able to surround them with people who can administrate...or else they need to look for someone else. But, as you say, it's definitely not a one for one correlation that artists can't be organized or have strong skills in leadership. Ultimately, it's an issue of how a person is gifted by the Holy Spirit. And I've met many Spirit-filled leaders who can hang with the best of leaders and administrators. Thanks again for tackling assumptions like these. Zac Great post. I appreciate you bringing this up! I’m with you on this, as I think too often artist-types get pegged as unable to function well as a leader. I have to say that, from experience, this is sometimes true. Churches who are interested in artist-leaders need to look at not only their artistic skill but their leadership abilities and administrative prowess. If they don’t have those latter traits, churches need to be able to surround them with people who can administrate…or else they need to look for someone else. But, as you say, it’s definitely not a one for one correlation that artists can’t be organized or have strong skills in leadership. Ultimately, it’s an issue of how a person is gifted by the Holy Spirit. And I’ve met many Spirit-filled leaders who can hang with the best of leaders and administrators. Thanks again for tackling assumptions like these.

Zac

]]>