Comments on: Worship Mythbusters: the myth of believer-centered worship http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html A conversation on faith & culture for creatives, leaders & influencers Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:00:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Brandon Buchanan http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4317 Brandon Buchanan Thu, 14 May 2009 05:35:35 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4317 yeah yeah, for sure. I hope I didn't come across as saying that it wasn't ordered. I knew that it was. I think I meant to just say that it could have seemed confusing. Now that I think about it though, it's amazing how God will meet people wherever they are at in their relationship with Him whether near or far, God will draw people to himself and God is able to meet people on a level that they can understand. We just need to be faithful and try to not leave anyone behind and let God take care of the rest and let him clean up all of our messes.. hehe yeah yeah, for sure. I hope I didn’t come across as saying that it wasn’t ordered. I knew that it was. I think I meant to just say that it could have seemed confusing.

Now that I think about it though, it’s amazing how God will meet people wherever they are at in their relationship with Him whether near or far, God will draw people to himself and God is able to meet people on a level that they can understand.

We just need to be faithful and try to not leave anyone behind and let God take care of the rest and let him clean up all of our messes.. hehe

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4315 Rich Kirkpatrick Thu, 14 May 2009 04:07:06 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4315 Not to get too technical, but the tongues in Acts at Pentecost were ordered since people heard their language. The type in 1 Corinthians need interpreting to be understood. So, Pentecost was NOT confusing at all and the result was that unbelievers became believers--thousands in one day it says! So, perhaps our public gatherings in some ways might be more about the unbeliever than satisfying the believer. At least in this analogy. Not to get too technical, but the tongues in Acts at Pentecost were ordered since people heard their language. The type in 1 Corinthians need interpreting to be understood. So, Pentecost was NOT confusing at all and the result was that unbelievers became believers–thousands in one day it says! So, perhaps our public gatherings in some ways might be more about the unbeliever than satisfying the believer. At least in this analogy.

]]> By: Brandon Buchanan http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4311 Brandon Buchanan Wed, 13 May 2009 23:21:10 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4311 No problem buddy. In re-reading this I was reminded of how an unbeliever would think of the day of pentecost if they happened to be just strolling through? All of a sudden people just start preaching the gospel in different languages and no doubt things may have seemed a little crazy. Now I know that God is not the author of confusion so it must have been somewhat orderly since it was brought on by the Holy Spirit, but no doubt weird and unexpected. I think the point is, we need to be sure we are not excluding the unbeliever nor are we so focussed on the unbeliever that the believer feels left wanting. How that looks? Not sure? But it's our job so we better figure it out! No problem buddy.

In re-reading this I was reminded of how an unbeliever would think of the day of pentecost if they happened to be just strolling through? All of a sudden people just start preaching the gospel in different languages and no doubt things may have seemed a little crazy. Now I know that God is not the author of confusion so it must have been somewhat orderly since it was brought on by the Holy Spirit, but no doubt weird and unexpected.

I think the point is, we need to be sure we are not excluding the unbeliever nor are we so focussed on the unbeliever that the believer feels left wanting. How that looks? Not sure? But it’s our job so we better figure it out!

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4300 Rich Kirkpatrick Wed, 13 May 2009 05:37:52 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4300 Johnnie, teaching is for us? It ultimately is all about God, right? So, that includes teaching, I believe. We participate in offering worship during the sermon as much if not more than when singing. The point in my post is that in scripture, public worship was public--it was done with the idea that people who were not yet fully believing were present. Thanks for participating in the conversation! Johnnie, teaching is for us? It ultimately is all about God, right? So, that includes teaching, I believe. We participate in offering worship during the sermon as much if not more than when singing.

The point in my post is that in scripture, public worship was public–it was done with the idea that people who were not yet fully believing were present.

Thanks for participating in the conversation!

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4299 Rich Kirkpatrick Wed, 13 May 2009 05:35:02 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4299 Thanks Brandon! Thanks Brandon!

]]> By: Johnnie Denson http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4297 Johnnie Denson Wed, 13 May 2009 04:15:10 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4297 ** correction: "we have to be careful not to make it too much about the people." Man typing on an iPhone after midnight is risky. LOL ** correction: “we have to be careful not to make it too much about the people.”
Man typing on an iPhone after midnight is risky. LOL

]]> By: Johnnie Denson http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4296 Johnnie Denson Wed, 13 May 2009 04:09:31 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4296 I think what is said here is true, that we are worship leaders and our job is simply to lead others in worship. We have to be careful though not toqke t too much shot the people. This part of the service is the only part that is geared solely for his delight and pleasure. He is glorified in the teaching times as well, but teaching time is for us...God doesn't need to learn about himself, right? Guess what I'm saying is we have to be mindful of people, because we're leading people, but let's not do it at His expense. If we are real in our worship, all people will be drawn. There's no need to water anything down, or puff anything up...just be real. Disclaimer: In no way am I saying Rich is saying make it about the people. Just adding my own $.02 ;) I think what is said here is true, that we are worship leaders and our job is simply to lead others in worship. We have to be careful though not toqke t too much shot the people. This part of the service is the only part that is geared solely for his delight and pleasure. He is glorified in the teaching times as well, but teaching time is for us…God doesn’t need to learn about himself, right? Guess what I’m saying is we have to be mindful of people, because we’re leading people, but let’s not do it at His expense. If we are real in our worship, all people will be drawn. There’s no need to water anything down, or puff anything up…just be real.

Disclaimer: In no way am I saying Rich is saying make it about the people. Just adding my own $.02 ;)

]]> By: Brandon Buchanan http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2009/04/worship-mythbusters-the-myth-of-believer-centered-worship.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4295 Brandon Buchanan Wed, 13 May 2009 03:51:25 +0000 http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/?p=1844#comment-4295 I whole heartedly agree that we need to keep the unbeliever or the unchurched in mind when putting together and planning for our worship services, especially in bigger churches. In the bigger church setting it is often hard for the new/non believer to penetrate the gathering and enter in, and they end up just standing on the sidelines observing, not fully understanding, and ultimately walking away. It's our job as lead worshippers and pastors to be sure that everyone feels welcome in our gathering places and that the spirit of God is easily seen and understood. It is also our job to make sure that we don't water things down so much that the mature believer is feeling dissatisfied. There is a healthy balance and I think you nailed it in referring to the "insider language" - we need to speak on terms that everyone can understand. I am definitely challenged by this to be sure to do my part! I whole heartedly agree that we need to keep the unbeliever or the unchurched in mind when putting together and planning for our worship services, especially in bigger churches. In the bigger church setting it is often hard for the new/non believer to penetrate the gathering and enter in, and they end up just standing on the sidelines observing, not fully understanding, and ultimately walking away.

It’s our job as lead worshippers and pastors to be sure that everyone feels welcome in our gathering places and that the spirit of God is easily seen and understood. It is also our job to make sure that we don’t water things down so much that the mature believer is feeling dissatisfied. There is a healthy balance and I think you nailed it in referring to the “insider language” – we need to speak on terms that everyone can understand.

I am definitely challenged by this to be sure to do my part!

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