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	<title>Comments on: Five Terrible myths that American Christians share about politics</title>
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	<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html</link>
	<description>A conversation on faith &#38; culture for creatives, leaders &#38; influencers</description>
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		<title>By: Let&#8217;s get ready to Rrrrrrrrrrummmmmble! - betterthanblank</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator>Let&#8217;s get ready to Rrrrrrrrrrummmmmble! - betterthanblank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-3160</guid>
		<description>[...] Rich&#8217;s 5 Myths that America Christians share about politics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rich&#8217;s 5 Myths that America Christians share about politics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2425</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2425</guid>
		<description>Again Rich...I&#039;m not disagreeing with you at all. I&#039;m just saying there are plenty of other views that has plenty of Biblical backing as to how Jesus ran his ministry.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again Rich&#8230;I&#8217;m not disagreeing with you at all. I&#8217;m just saying there are plenty of other views that has plenty of Biblical backing as to how Jesus ran his ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: Obi-Wible</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2424</link>
		<dc:creator>Obi-Wible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2424</guid>
		<description>hhhmmmmmm.......

Two things (or more) then I will go away. Politics can not change people&#039;s heart. I agree with this assessment. Politcs are merely a reflection of where people&#039;s hearts are. That being said, I do firmly believe that we as Christians should be &quot;political&quot; in the sense that we examine issues and the candidates that stand for these issues through the grid of our Christianity. So should people vote clearly on the basis of whether some is pro-life or not? No, but this issue (and others like it) speak to the character of a person who stands for them if you ask me. I could go on and on I suppose. I have to be honest though when I say, and I say this in all honesty, while I don&#039;t believe &quot;the right&quot; and it&#039;s political positions will change people&#039;s hearts, I find the politics of the left downright frightening, completely out of whack with the reality of human nature, and ultimately destructive to society. Like I said, I am just being honest. That is how I feel. I feel as though we have freewill, so people should vote in a way that reflects what they believe to be rig

All that being said, all I can do is my part to change the hearts of the individuals I come in contact with, and hope that one day it will help to create a city, state, country, and world that is more Christlike.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hhhmmmmmm&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Two things (or more) then I will go away. Politics can not change people&#8217;s heart. I agree with this assessment. Politcs are merely a reflection of where people&#8217;s hearts are. That being said, I do firmly believe that we as Christians should be &#8220;political&#8221; in the sense that we examine issues and the candidates that stand for these issues through the grid of our Christianity. So should people vote clearly on the basis of whether some is pro-life or not? No, but this issue (and others like it) speak to the character of a person who stands for them if you ask me. I could go on and on I suppose. I have to be honest though when I say, and I say this in all honesty, while I don&#8217;t believe &#8220;the right&#8221; and it&#8217;s political positions will change people&#8217;s hearts, I find the politics of the left downright frightening, completely out of whack with the reality of human nature, and ultimately destructive to society. Like I said, I am just being honest. That is how I feel. I feel as though we have freewill, so people should vote in a way that reflects what they believe to be rig</p>
<p>All that being said, all I can do is my part to change the hearts of the individuals I come in contact with, and hope that one day it will help to create a city, state, country, and world that is more Christlike.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Goodyear</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2423</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Goodyear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2423</guid>
		<description>I wonder. If Jesus and I were walking on the shore on election day and someone asked him how he would vote... would he send me fishing to find two ballots stuffed inside the fish?

It&#039;s not a perfect analogy, but it&#039;s an interesting thought.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder. If Jesus and I were walking on the shore on election day and someone asked him how he would vote&#8230; would he send me fishing to find two ballots stuffed inside the fish?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a perfect analogy, but it&#8217;s an interesting thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2422</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2422</guid>
		<description>Good stuff.  It&#039;s pretty exciting to see it all play out.

#3...He would transcend it.

Double True!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff.  It&#8217;s pretty exciting to see it all play out.</p>
<p>#3&#8230;He would transcend it.</p>
<p>Double True!</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2421</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2421</guid>
		<description>Clearly, the pattern of Jesus was not political.  Here are some reasons beyond being a simple gut opinion--in fact being the most biblically reinforced point of the 3.  In my opinion, of course.

- Jesus had political zealots that followed him, but never allowed their agenda to be his agenda
- Jesus spoke not against the government, but religious leaders as a Rabbi himself
- Matters of state, policy or government were never part of his solution, except when referring to the heaven.
- When Jesus addressed social issues, it was to the people, not the King or governing authorities
- The idea of a political Messiah was a misunderstanding of many who followed him, shown by their dismissal of him
- While there was a political wake from the life of Jesus, his agenda never was stated as a political agenda.

You can say that people have differing views of this, but the difference would be that there is no judgement or place called heaven. So, those with a very non-Evangelical and liberal theology would ascribe to that conistently.  Mixing our work and worship with a political agenda is dangerous and certainly not that way Jesus modeled.  He modeled the ability to be with tax collectors and the zealots.  He indeed transcended that governmental structures as solutions with the offer of a personal faith that really works whether in Communist China or Christianized regions of Africa or in capitalistic America.

If our faith is stuck inside our politics, we should question what we are really living for.  Or, is this all there is?  I think it is clear Jesus taught there is more that transcends this life.  So, our faith should transcend our politics.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly, the pattern of Jesus was not political.  Here are some reasons beyond being a simple gut opinion&#8211;in fact being the most biblically reinforced point of the 3.  In my opinion, of course.</p>
<p>- Jesus had political zealots that followed him, but never allowed their agenda to be his agenda<br />
- Jesus spoke not against the government, but religious leaders as a Rabbi himself<br />
- Matters of state, policy or government were never part of his solution, except when referring to the heaven.<br />
- When Jesus addressed social issues, it was to the people, not the King or governing authorities<br />
- The idea of a political Messiah was a misunderstanding of many who followed him, shown by their dismissal of him<br />
- While there was a political wake from the life of Jesus, his agenda never was stated as a political agenda.</p>
<p>You can say that people have differing views of this, but the difference would be that there is no judgement or place called heaven. So, those with a very non-Evangelical and liberal theology would ascribe to that conistently.  Mixing our work and worship with a political agenda is dangerous and certainly not that way Jesus modeled.  He modeled the ability to be with tax collectors and the zealots.  He indeed transcended that governmental structures as solutions with the offer of a personal faith that really works whether in Communist China or Christianized regions of Africa or in capitalistic America.</p>
<p>If our faith is stuck inside our politics, we should question what we are really living for.  Or, is this all there is?  I think it is clear Jesus taught there is more that transcends this life.  So, our faith should transcend our politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2420</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2420</guid>
		<description>#3 seems to be more your opinion than fact. Christians have debated what Jesus&#039; ministry was like for a long time. It very well could have been transcendent, but I don&#039;t know that everyone would agree to that. I&#039;m not saying I disagree, just seems like a difficult thing to call a fact.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3 seems to be more your opinion than fact. Christians have debated what Jesus&#8217; ministry was like for a long time. It very well could have been transcendent, but I don&#8217;t know that everyone would agree to that. I&#8217;m not saying I disagree, just seems like a difficult thing to call a fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Hackler</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2419</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Hackler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2419</guid>
		<description>Frederic Bastiat wrote a great book in the mid-1800&#039;s called &quot;The Law&quot;. In it he described what happens to a society when the law becomes &quot;perverted&quot; - that is when it is used to advantage one group/agenda/interest over another.

What has happened in our society is that the church has allowed government to crowd out the altruistic functions and services the church has traditionally provided. Instead we have groups pining for their share of the governmental pie and Christians take the easy way out by choosing an agenda to get on board with instead of taking their rightful place as heirs to the Kingdom of God and becoming ambassadors for His agenda.

I&#039;ll stop ranting now. Good post Rich!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frederic Bastiat wrote a great book in the mid-1800&#8217;s called &#8220;The Law&#8221;. In it he described what happens to a society when the law becomes &#8220;perverted&#8221; &#8211; that is when it is used to advantage one group/agenda/interest over another.</p>
<p>What has happened in our society is that the church has allowed government to crowd out the altruistic functions and services the church has traditionally provided. Instead we have groups pining for their share of the governmental pie and Christians take the easy way out by choosing an agenda to get on board with instead of taking their rightful place as heirs to the Kingdom of God and becoming ambassadors for His agenda.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop ranting now. Good post Rich!</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2418</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2418</guid>
		<description>Chad,

Now we are getting it from a left-leaning agenda, too.  Dobson has company in McLaren!  Let&#039;s not be fooled by either extreme.

RK
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>Now we are getting it from a left-leaning agenda, too.  Dobson has company in McLaren!  Let&#8217;s not be fooled by either extreme.</p>
<p>RK</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-m.html/comment-page-1/#comment-2417</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2008/09/five-terrible-myths-that-american-christians-share-about-politics/ #comment-2417</guid>
		<description>Nice post, I wish more people could think that clearly. When I read the Gospels, I see Jesus changing the hearts of individual people, he didn&#039;t discuss Roman or Jewish politics.

We would do much better to model ourselves after the early christians in Rome. Live the Way regardless of the local politics and people will gravitiate toward us. On the other hand, it is actually possible that God may want the American Church to live as a persucuted minority for awhile :o

The sooner we can have people like James Dobson give up on being in charge of how America lives the better. We are not in charge....the Kingdom of God is still spiritual not temporal. One day that will change.....but not because of anything we do.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, I wish more people could think that clearly. When I read the Gospels, I see Jesus changing the hearts of individual people, he didn&#8217;t discuss Roman or Jewish politics.</p>
<p>We would do much better to model ourselves after the early christians in Rome. Live the Way regardless of the local politics and people will gravitiate toward us. On the other hand, it is actually possible that God may want the American Church to live as a persucuted minority for awhile <img src='http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The sooner we can have people like James Dobson give up on being in charge of how America lives the better. We are not in charge&#8230;.the Kingdom of God is still spiritual not temporal. One day that will change&#8230;..but not because of anything we do.</p>
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