Comments on: Emerging Church verse the Emergent Church http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html A conversation on faith & culture for creatives, leaders & influencers Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:44:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-144 Rich Kirkpatrick Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:34:32 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-144 Where does our methodology end and our theology begin? Can they be separated? This is really the issue I have. I love to question form, but really out of the context of historical theological roots. Perhaps, what is alarming to some is that they are intertwind a bit in these conversations. I am not alarmed at this point myself, but am concerned at least. Where does our methodology end and our theology begin? Can they be separated? This is really the issue I have. I love to question form, but really out of the context of historical theological roots. Perhaps, what is alarming to some is that they are intertwind a bit in these conversations. I am not alarmed at this point myself, but am concerned at least.

]]> By: Steve S. http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-143 Steve S. Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:27:05 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-143 Perhaps I misspoke, relevance most certainly <i>is</i> important. I meant to say that issues of relevance to the culture and structures of the church flow out of theology, they are a manifestation of our theology (hence the conversation we had about the Gospel we preach producing the fruit we see...). <i>A Generous Orthodoxy</i> is one of the McLaren books that I have read. I would compare it with Lewis' <i>Mere Christianity</i>. McLaren is not trying to rewrite theology, but to remind the Church of it. (If theology means the study of God, which is a big "if" in many circles!) Perhaps I misspoke, relevance most certainly is important. I meant to say that issues of relevance to the culture and structures of the church flow out of theology, they are a manifestation of our theology (hence the conversation we had about the Gospel we preach producing the fruit we see…).

A Generous Orthodoxy is one of the McLaren books that I have read. I would compare it with Lewis’ Mere Christianity. McLaren is not trying to rewrite theology, but to remind the Church of it. (If theology means the study of God, which is a big “if” in many circles!)

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-142 Rich Kirkpatrick Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:41:18 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-142 Steve--Relevance is a biblical issue when Pauls says "I become all things...to save some" In our recent Church history we see Hudson Taylor who decided to contextualize his faith--he dyed his hair black, learned Chinese, dressed like a Chinese person and was able to break through and see many come to faith. I see that sharing our lives and our faith in an "indigenous" manner is really important. Speaking the language of postmoderns or any other cultural group is one thing. Structure and style do matter. And, methods do need to be updated or revisted. The church is just not working to help people with transformation. New methods and older ones may be the key. McLaren has a book about theology (A Generous Orthodoxy). He is developing a new theological approach, apparently. So, he fits well in "revisionist" camp of the emerging church. I look forward to reading this book at some point. Steve–Relevance is a biblical issue when Pauls says “I become all things…to save some” In our recent Church history we see Hudson Taylor who decided to contextualize his faith–he dyed his hair black, learned Chinese, dressed like a Chinese person and was able to break through and see many come to faith.

I see that sharing our lives and our faith in an “indigenous” manner is really important. Speaking the language of postmoderns or any other cultural group is one thing. Structure and style do matter. And, methods do need to be updated or revisted. The church is just not working to help people with transformation. New methods and older ones may be the key.

McLaren has a book about theology (A Generous Orthodoxy). He is developing a new theological approach, apparently. So, he fits well in “revisionist” camp of the emerging church. I look forward to reading this book at some point.

]]> By: Steve S. http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-141 Steve S. Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:30:25 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-141 Ultimately <i>all</i> issues are theological ones. It is our understanding of who God is that leads us into our evangelistic efforts and our church forms. If our view of God is tweaked then that will be manifested in our personal and corporate lives. Conversely, if our lives do not correspond to what the Bible describes them to be, the root issue is our faulty understanding of God. We do not ever have to worry about "rethinking" our relevance to the culture or the necessity of reconstructing current church programs and structures; if we will simply know God intimately and allow Him to work His character into us, we will quite naturally find ourselves fruitfully engaging our culture and successfully building the Church. I would say that the term "revisionist" is a straw man argument unworthy of application to the conversation. I am not the most well versed in "PoMo" literature, but have read several of McLaren's books, his desire is certainly <b>not</b> revision. He desires to apply a knowledge of God to our understanding of everything else, including the language we use to describe things like Church, culture, evangelism, heaven and hell, etc. Ultimately all issues are theological ones. It is our understanding of who God is that leads us into our evangelistic efforts and our church forms.

If our view of God is tweaked then that will be manifested in our personal and corporate lives. Conversely, if our lives do not correspond to what the Bible describes them to be, the root issue is our faulty understanding of God.

We do not ever have to worry about “rethinking” our relevance to the culture or the necessity of reconstructing current church programs and structures; if we will simply know God intimately and allow Him to work His character into us, we will quite naturally find ourselves fruitfully engaging our culture and successfully building the Church.

I would say that the term “revisionist” is a straw man argument unworthy of application to the conversation. I am not the most well versed in “PoMo” literature, but have read several of McLaren’s books, his desire is certainly not revision. He desires to apply a knowledge of God to our understanding of everything else, including the language we use to describe things like Church, culture, evangelism, heaven and hell, etc.

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-140 Rich Kirkpatrick Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:33:23 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-140 Good point to bring that up, Derek. Barna's so-called revolutionaries would actually fit nicely in the "Reconstructionist" camp, it would appear. The attitude is that church does not "work" the way Revolutionaries see it--yet they are seeking God. I would say this way of thinking is in common with a lot of the emerging church movement. I look foward to reading your thoughts on the book! Have you read Todd Blosinger's thoughts about it? Worth reading... http://bolsinger.blogs.com/weblog/2006/01/a_notsonewnorra_1.html Good point to bring that up, Derek. Barna’s so-called revolutionaries would actually fit nicely in the “Reconstructionist” camp, it would appear. The attitude is that church does not “work” the way Revolutionaries see it–yet they are seeking God. I would say this way of thinking is in common with a lot of the emerging church movement.

I look foward to reading your thoughts on the book! Have you read Todd Blosinger’s thoughts about it? Worth reading…
http://bolsinger.blogs.com/weblog/2006/01/a_notsonewnorra_1.html

]]> By: Derek http://www.richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church.html/comment-page-1/#comment-139 Derek Mon, 03 Apr 2006 18:33:52 +0000 http://richkirkpatrick.com/rich_kirkpatricks_weblog/2006/04/emerging-church-verse-the-emergent-church/ #comment-139 You can add another "R" to the list. Though not explicitly linked with the Emerging/Emergent camps, George Barna's book "Revolution" discusses "revolutionaries" who are beginning to see that the local church is "abiblical". It's not biblical, or unbiblical. It can be beneficial for the kingdom, but sometimes it can also be a detriment. It's worth checking out. (I'm still in the process of writing reviews for it on my blog.) But basically, it all comes down to recognizing that the world is changing, and our approach to ministry must change if we are to be effective. What's important is that we not undermine each other's attempts in this area -- God intentionally wants us to use differing methods of ministry to advance His kingdom. You can add another “R” to the list. Though not explicitly linked with the Emerging/Emergent camps, George Barna’s book “Revolution” discusses “revolutionaries” who are beginning to see that the local church is “abiblical”. It’s not biblical, or unbiblical. It can be beneficial for the kingdom, but sometimes it can also be a detriment. It’s worth checking out. (I’m still in the process of writing reviews for it on my blog.)

But basically, it all comes down to recognizing that the world is changing, and our approach to ministry must change if we are to be effective. What’s important is that we not undermine each other’s attempts in this area — God intentionally wants us to use differing methods of ministry to advance His kingdom.

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